Dave Abramson Interview

I did this interview for the next edition of the Urban Boar zine, soon to be available in coffee shops throughout the University District (and possibly more of Seattle). This is a longer version than that which is to be published.

Dave Abramson is a busy man. He performs with the psychedelic Spaghetti-western surf-rock group, Diminished Men, the “heavy” free-improv Spider Trio, and the Climax Golden Twins. He is also a sound guy at a variety of clubs in Seattle and works with the Maureen Whiting Company – a modern dance troupe who performs in Seattle.

I met him at his apartment to discuss his multitude of projects. Sitting below two giant gold and black Ghostface Killah posters, Abramson and I wandered through a variety of topics, often veering completely out of the realm of relevancy to this particular interview. I tried to boil it to the basic nuts and bolts and have provided italicized seques when we got too far from the barely visible path.

‘I just sat on the side and all the people were sitting, it was this kind of multi – you could sit anywhere and see from any angle and I just sat on the side with this little wooden table or some shit with the CD player running that and then I had other CDs I could just pick from and put in and I had a mixer and I would do kind of live improvised collage to the dancers!‘

Could you just go over all the stuff your involved with right now.
Yea, Spider Trio is Wally Shoup [avant-garde saxophonist], Jeffrey Taylor [guitarist and owner of Wall of Sound, a music shop on Capitol Hill], myself. Just sax, guitar, drums. Pretty heavy free improv. Climax Golden Twins is Jeffrey Taylor and Rob Millis. Diminished Men – Steve Schmidt and Sam Wambach, Matt Rosoff and for the past few years I’ve been writing music for Maureen Whiting Dance Company. She’s a local modern dance [choreographer]. Been, submitting music to her, just a piece here and there.

Do you play more than just the drums?
For that [Whiting Company], I write on guitar or piano and then have Julie Baldridge [violinist for the Sugar Skulls] play violin.

How’d you get into all these different styles? What’d you grow up playing or listening to?
Grew up listening to metal – Misfits and Metallica, Ramones – kinda early on and seventh grade started playing drums, something like that, eighth grade played in crappy in kind of hard rock bands with some alternative stuff. Got into the hardcore, more punk stuff and East Coast hardcore stuff in high school.

This is all when you were back East?
Yea, New Jersey. Then continued doing that then I started playing bass for awhile when I got to college It was this, kind of proggy metal type of thing. Did that for awhile. And then from that, I think the kind of proggy aspects kind of got me thinking about other kinds of music besides this hard, hardcore stuff and metal stuff. My brother was always sending me Coltrane, Roland Kirk, Mingus cassettes so that was always kind of stewing and then start thinking a little differently. Starting playing some jazz on a bass, you know, really bad, really bad shit and then shortly after that I started getting back on drums ‘cause I was playing bass for so long and I think taking a break from drums for four years was so refreshing and I just kind of came back and I’ve been playing every day since then, so it’s like six years ago.

When did you move out here?
Five years ago.

What made you come out to Seattle?
Well I went to school in Ithaca, New York. Upstate. Really small town, pretty slow, kind of hippie drug town; lot of reggae which was cool. It was just really small. I needed a bigger place to go play music and more venues to see music at, more venues to play the type of stuff I was playing you couldn’t really play up there. There’s no audience or no one to play with either. Had some friends from up there that moved out to Seattle. I’d never been to the West Coast, I’ll just give it a shot.

What was the first stuff you started doing out here? I mean, Wally Shoup’s been around forever, man. How’d you get involved with that guy?
That came a little bit later. Before I left Ithaca, upstate New York, I was doing a lot of free improve and not really on things I’d ever heard before because I wasn’t really hip to that type of shit yet. So really, I had no one to play with when I first moved out here, you know, and I was just playing a lot drums, just solo. Solo free drums, you know? Started playing some straight ahead jazz, trying to get a good grasp of that, you know? I was interested in the heavy freer stuff and it was like, I’m going to get a good grasp of straight ahead and bebop stuff so I could fuck it up even more, you know? And I started to really enjoy it and played a lot of straight ahead stuff. And I would go out and see, uh, Mike Bizzio and Bob Reese and Wally Shoup I just liked what they were doing, uh…

How long you been playing with Diminished Men?
Probably, like, four and a half years. I met Steve after being out here for two months.

And you guys both had the idea to start a crazy psychedelic surf rock band?
I had been playing in Ithaca with my friend’s band [that] was the Mofo’s. They were like this high octane, Black Sabbath-meets-Link Wray-meets-Motorhead type of surf thing. So he started giving me tapes, like, Shadows, Pyramids, and the guitarist was my roommate for awhile so I would just play with them sometimes when the drummer would leave town I’d kind of jam with them, I’d jam with them, practice with ‘em. Kind of turned me on to that, when I came out here Steve’s ad really had nothing to do with that at all, it was, like, driving heavy rhythms. He put an ad in the fucking Stranger, you know? So he had a little bit of that going on. He had some kind of unique surf thing going on and we kind of extracted it and we went in that direction. First couple songs were like these, I don’t know, post-rock Pixies things with a surf guitar, you know? These, I don’t know – I don’t know what it was. These marching beats and straight ahead punk beats and then, then there was this, you know, he had this sound and it kind of went in that direction.

I just had a question that’s kind of base, ‘cause you were talking about playing punk as a kid and it kind of seems to me for the first time all these kids that grew up playing that stupid stuff, or I mean not stupid stuff but, you know like a lot of that, for the first time they’re branching out instead of bands growing up and starting big stadium rock bands like they did in the ‘90s, now bands are growing up and starting, like, crazy freak bands. In the ‘80s the Sun City Girls and the Minutemen kind of did that, and the Butthole Surfers, but no one else, really. It would just be considered the most fucking bizarre thing in the world.
Coming from that background and expanding to that? It’s killer that they have that kind of energy and that state, you know? That’s probably one of the strongest things about maybe all those bands is the intent, you know?

To just go do something fucking, pretty fucking different than anyone else did.
And with complete conviction, you know?

You got two albums out, basically, with the Diminished Men now. Names of the Dead, right? I was outside the Mars Bar and someone called it surf rock and you were, like, “Don’t call it surf rock!” And the stuff now, you can almost say that about it [that] it’s almost like you’re just using the same tonal qualities, like these are the sounds to be used, but the music doesn’t necessarily reflect that.
Right, right, absolutely, yea. A lot of the same tones, too, in dub. Boxy drums, you know?

Why’d you do the, uh, the American Volume Swells?
What were we doing? Think we were just recording these improvisations to develop new songs and just have improves and to work out new tunes, just got this tape recorder, just hook it up mono and just started recording exactly what I just said: kind of blown out and saturated and it sounded great. It sounded really uniform, really ballsy, you know, drums sounded like drums. I just liked the rawness of it. It was really immediate and I was, like, “We should put out a, let’s put these recordings out, onto a CD or something,” some kind of EP or something like that. I started getting into the tape so much, I was, like, “Let’s just put it out on tape,” and then you get it, kind of how we had it. I assembled the first half of it one cassette, all the edits and everything and all the spacing between songs was just done on the cassette deck. And some collage edits, too, where just rewinding tapes and bringing it back, kind of repetitive sword [sword noises] kind of thing, so I just did that on tapes and I was, like, fuck it, just keep going with the tapes and you get it, kind of like how we would listen back.

So it didn’t go to digital at any time?
I did. I wanted to do more things with editing so I dumped all the cassette stuff into ProTools. Still a lot of those, the first half of those edits, were done on tape then all the other edits were done on ProTools, overlaying some collage stuff was done on ProTools. And then just pressed it from there.

And then you jumped from that to recording an album with Randall [Dunn, a Seattle producer who has worked with Sunn 0))) & Boris, Jesse Sykes, Critters Buggin’]? Veer it in the absolute opposite direction.
Yea, yea! Yea, we just got that mastered, just got it mastered. Just got it back yesterday. It’s pretty beefy. It’s cool man. Randall did an awesome job.

How long did you guys work on that one?
Think we recorded for eight days. I think we did about four days of initial tracking. Three and a half days of just making sure the drums are good and the bass, and then about four days of guitar, of just doing guitar stuff. Steve Moore came in and played Farfisa organ, mellotron, choir voices from the mellotron, trombone and euphonium. He plays on maybe a little more than 1/3 of the record, different synth stuff and organ stuff and horns. He learned all these melodies in one day, you know, which was fucking amazing, man. He’s the dude to hire if you need somebody. Steve Moore, he plays with Earth and a bunch of other people around town. So where are we at? I don’t know that’s like four days, eight days, nine, probably, and then a full day of percussion, something like that. I don’t know two weeks? So fourteen days of working and then four days of mixing.

Why’d you guys decide to work with Randall?
I gave him a copy of Names of the Dead and he was, like, “I really like that stuff, you guys should record a record with me.” It was many months of pushing and pulling schedules and he was, like, “I really like the stuff. Let’s do a recording,” and he said, “More exploding drums!” It was a really good marriage I thought.

Have you guys got any plans to put it out?
Yea. In about a week or two we’re going to start shopping it around. Wait three or four months, see if somebody gets back to us, see if somebody wants to put it out, send it out to, like, x amount of record labels. We always put it out ourselves, you know?

Here the conversations drifts into the fall of major record labels, the current popularity of vinyl, and the booming independent music scene before Dave continued with his current projects.

We put out a Spider Trio CD, Live at the Rendezvous, which was recorded in August of 2006. Just made a limited amount of copies, 50 copies and we recorded on, Sonarchy radio, the Doug Hare thing. It’s, uh, what radio station is it? I don’t know, maybe KEXP or something like that. Sonarchy Radio, it’s avant/experimental kind of stuff. I think it’s like Saturday nights or something, maybe midnight, I don’t know, something like that. We played for an hour on the air. They used to air it right then and there which would’ve been fresh, but they air it like three months later. So they’re going to play it June and we’re taking different pieces of that and making a new record. So that should be all, music should be done for that tomorrow, actually.

Get finished recording it tomorrow?
No, we recorded it live for the radio. I’ve been mixing it. That should be ready to go out. Try to shop that around, too. Climax Golden Twins got a record coming out. All the materials recorded for that, too. We’re sequencing, still doing some mixing, cutting some songs out, you know? I think Abduction’s gonna put it out, but I’m not sure.

That’s pretty sweet. What about a Halo Vest [a three violin and two drum improv combo which performs occasionally in Seattle] live album?
I think there’s some video of that stuff. I think there’s some video. Maybe the original one, or something like that, the first one. With Peijman [Kouretchian, drummer in Seattle art-metal group Girth. Currently on the road with Secret Chiefs 3], that was pretty enjoyable. It was great playing with Peijman. You’re playing, three screeching violins, you’re having a good time, it’s getting going, you look over and Peijman is fucking playing drums. And he brought that little jazz kit, too.

The conversation drifter here again to discussions of Seattle’s underground music scene, me telling stories from the road, and old Girth shows before we got back on track.

What are the other bands you like in the city that you get to play with? This is the manipulative question. You’re playing with [Master Musicians of] Bukkake aren’t you?
It got cancelled. Booking, or another booking problem.

That one sounded cool. What was it going to be? Two reeds and five drums?
I guess some of ‘em couldn’t be there. They were going to be out of town so we were going to do a bunch of drums and it was going to be four drums – four drummers, not drumsets – and I think Isaac Mills and Randall were going to play double-reed instruments through a bunch of effects. Sonic Space Ritual I think it was called, or something like that. I was excited man. I was really stoked that they asked me to play and I was really excited for it.

You were saying something a couple of weeks ago about that 77 drummers on July 7^th, weren’t you [with Japanese art-rock legends, the Boredoms]? Are you still trying to get on that?
Oh, yea, yea. I e-mailed the guy and he said, “You’re in.” He was, like, “Yea, we need, we need drummers and if you’re going to be in town with your drums come play,” so I was, like, “Alright, cool,” so, we’ll see if it actually happens, you know? That would be fun, but he was, like, yea you’re in, but, you know, I’ll e-mail him soon to say, “Where should I be?” and it comes to that point we’ll see. That’ll be fun just to be part of that whole cog, you know? Boredoms with 77 drummers.

You also do sound, don’t you? Is that what your living is, is doing the sound?
Yea, that’s how I pay my rent. Mix bands at the Comet, Chop Suey, the Lo-Fi. It’s nice, I work at night. Come home, you don’t have to go to sleep. You’re helping bands out, you know. Definitely, even if it’s not what you’re into, you’re helping bands out.

The conversation drifted once again – this time with me telling stories of crazy old sound guys and horrible bookers I used to work with.

Let’s see, I’ll ask you about, don’t you record Brad [Dunn, Seattle-based guitarist]’s music?
Just a couple of times. Just a few times. Just a handful of songs or something like that, yea yea. They’re just vamps. Like these R&B slow jams, hazy, hazy, hazy R&B slow jams with this bent guitar, you know? These two four tracks right here, he’s got the same machine, kind of how he gets his sound. You just hit the gain really hot on the four track and you get this great – fuck with the EQ and that’s it, you know? When he wanted to record over here we didn’t have those machines, we just had ProTools, so we used the same tape deck as the Diminished Men, when we did the mono Diminished Men recordings, so we just hit it real hot to the cassette deck and use that as the preamp, you know, and get good crunchy tones like the four-track.

Did he get an album together to take with him on tour?
I think so, I think so, yea. I did a couple songs, maybe three songs, something like that.

How’d you get to submitting music for [the Maureen Whiting Dance Company]?
My roommate from a few years ago shoots film and he shot some stuff for her and edited a piece for her and she said she wanted some sort of a sound guy for her, to work with the dance company. I had no idea what she wanted. A sound guy for the dance company, you know? I don’t know what she wanted me to do. But what I did for her was, she had picked out a bunch of music and I helped her arrange an hour’s worth of music, you know? Just where certain music should lay and she was into a lot of collage so she would do these collage things and I’d muck around with that and I kind of taught her ProTools and we would edit together for this music piece. So we made the hour long track for the dance that I ran off a CD player. I sat on the sidelines…it was in this warehouse, it was really cool. People were sitting all the way around. I was in the old Tully’s factory, where the old Rainier factory was. Um, and I just sat on the side, it was in this warehouse. I just sat on the side and all the people were sitting, it was this kind of multi – you could sit anywhere and see from any angle and I just sat on the side with this little wooden table or some shit with the CD player running that and then I had other CDs I could just pick from and put in and I had a mixer and I would do kind of live improvised collage to the dancers! ‘Cause they were doing some, improvising, too, and it breaks down to solos, and duets and trios and they could, you know, um, so that’s what I did for the first one. And, uh, you know, worked with all the levels, you know, and just getting the whole soundtrack going, arranging it. And then she used some Diminished Men music in the next one. She used about four pieces of that. It was Diminished Men, Bach, Indian pop stuff, Evan Schiller, um, used a Brad Dunn piece. And then the next one, I stumbled across writing the violin music – it was a complete accident. With this guitar thing for awhile and Julie and I always just improvised and I was, like, “Let’s record something together. Let’s kind of write something together,” and I had this guitar piece on the computer that I already recorded. Just had her play on top of it with violin, just these different harmonizing, three tracks of violin. When she left I smoked a bowl, go back to the session, and I just muted the guitar and I just had these violins playing and I was, like, “Fuck yea!” So I played it for Maureen and she loved it and the dancers loved it and, um, so then she used that for the next piece and she used, again, Evan Schiller, my violin stuff, Eyvind Kang [composer and violinist], some music from Eyvind Kang, Reptet – like a local kind of big band sounding jazz group. So I’ve written some stuff for her. I’ve got some new stuff for her, too, recently…she has a piece coming up in May.

And you’re going to be doing sound for that one also?
Yea, I’m going to help her arrange it, um, I wrote some new music for it, um, and I think Eyvind is going to be giving her some more music.

What do you got coming up in the next couple of months live?
Live you said? Diminished Men at the S.S. Marie Antoinette [June 2]. Spider Trio at El Corazon [May19].

Spider Trio at El Corazon?
Yea, some kind of all ages – I don’t know, noise-rock, avant-rock show – I don’t know what it is. I don’t know anything. I think it’s kind of an early show, too, so I’m pretty excited about that. I’m pretty excited for that. I think it’s going to be pretty heavy, you know? I think it’s going to be more of like playing with these punk bands and I think Jeffrey’s really revved about it. I think he already knows he’s going to go in there and demolish and Wally never has a problem with that. Um, what else? I think that’s it. I think that’s it. Oh, well…collect a lot of drums. I buy drums all the time. Probably got, like, three different kits.

All nice old ones?
Predominantly. I got a newer Tama snare and a floor tom for my original kit. But, yea, everything else is kind of older stuff. Kind of a Craig’s List – kind of addicted to it. ‘Cause people don’t know what they have sometimes and you drive out to Edmonds, at some dude’s house I bought for two-hundred bucks – I got this shitty drum set that I sold to my friend for $100 and then – so that means I paid a hundred bucks after he paid me. I kept the cymbals, there was four vintage Zildjian cymbals, that I ended up paying $120 for, so, it’s $700 worth of cymbals. So I just kind of hustled the cymbals, you know? I get to keep what I want and I sell the rest and I make money and I get free gear, you know? Free drums, you know? Or somebody just wants it out of there house, you know? I don’t even need anymore shit it’s just that hunt is fucking awesome man. It’s, like, “What, I can get that for that price?” I got to have it, you know? I think I’m okay for now.

The conversation drifted again until I noticed a vintage keyboard leaned up against Dave’s kit.

When you play with the keyboard, though, do you just puts on or do you play anything with it?
Matters who I play it with, you know? Sometimes we use the beats off of it and I kind of accompany chords in the background or just sat that through reverb, or spring reverb tank, you know, and just kind of get some dubby sounds and these kind of freaky high end Italian harp, you know, with some bad samba beat going…and then just put some reverb sax all over that. That’s been the best use of the keyboard so far. But Sam’s going to start playing it with the Diminished Men and there’s some real cool Farfisa organ sounds on there and play some leads with that, switch up the tone.

I thought you were saying awhile ago that you might get a percussionist also? Were you thinking about it?
For Diminished Men? Maybe just like an auxiliary guy. Somebody that can play like a Danelectro Bass VI, you know, a bass, a guitar, keyboard, percussion, horn, you know, lap steel or something, I don’t know. Yea, just somebody to just to do more stuff with, to be more descriptive and get more color out of the type of stuff we’re trying to…

Everytime you bring somebody into, like, a group of people who are playing, like, the second there’s another guy in there it’s, like, it’s not the same thing and you got to rethink everything you’ve just done and you’re, like, “Okay, now what do we do.” Is that Joe Meek record?
Yea, two CDs. 60 tracks. It’s fucking sick. I’ll put some on. Yea, I’m trying to get more melody out of the drums. I can to a degree, kind of like an Ed Blackwell type of way. Really high pitched toms which I could really only use for jazz and free improv stuff. Doesn’t really work for some for the rock stuff and some of the heavier stuff just ‘cause there’s no balls to it. But Imake these kind of bell sets.

Oh, yea, you make ‘em?
Just, you find, find parts from Salvation Army’s and thrift shops, little candle holders, candle stands, candlesticks, is that what you call ‘em? Just the sense of melody from the drums, ‘cause I got all these kind of cartoony melodies and stuff going around in my head and it’s kind of like…it’s called a chang-change in gamelan, it’s like the hi-hat. [sings melody then plays weird bells things] I’m trying to add some of this to whatever, you know?

Once again the conversation strayed, this time not returning. Dave had to take off to work so he gave me a ride home while listening to the Germs.

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